Man Utd have an ‘insecure wild-eyed’ manager but still ahead of Arsenal and Liverpool

Man Utd and Erik ten Hag continue to dominate the Mailbox but one Red is still claiming that United have been more successful than Mikel Arteta’s Liverpool.

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Would still rather support Man Utd than Arsenal or Liverpool…
Honest thoughts as a United fan:

– For me, there is no difference between 2nd and 17th. Who gives a sh*t of league finish when you aren’t winning the league. And City is winning the league, so I don’t care where our league position is, come the end of it. Yes it massively spoils 8 months of the year to see your team playing like sh*t, but at the end of it, we are losers of the league just like 19 other teams.

– Top 4, if we aren’t capable of winning it, who gives a sh*t if we are in the CL or no. We are barely capable of winning the Europa, so happier to be there.

– It’s not my job to see what earns United more money. Not wasting 90m on Antony (still don’t think this can be real) would be equal to 3 season in the UCL but here we are.

– For all of excitement and oohhhs and aaaahs around Arsenal, I doubt they have had ONE day that comes close to what United fans had on their FA Cup victory. So I would rather win something and be elated then just be excited and then disappointed year after year. Are they going to win the league this year? No. So what’s the point of Arteta other than being a Brendan Rodgers regen?

– Again, “trust the process”, “where is the progress” etc etc are just stupid discussions, when a team is ready to win the league, they will win the league. Be it from finishing 8th the previous season or even 17th. This season has no bearing on the next.

– This is not to defend ETH and his dumbass decisions at times, but I would still much rather be a United fan than be Liv, Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs fans last two years. You know why? Because we actually won more, and actually had days where our team was actually lifting a trophy so we actually had days where we celebrated.

I get that this mentality isn’t for everyone, and to each their own. But i would 100x be more p***ed if my team threw away the league after being the best, than I would be if my team was trash and managed to still win something.

The only way is up for United
Aman Sheth

MORE ON MAN UTD MESS FROM F365:
👉 16 Conclusions on Man Utd 0-3 Liverpool: Ten Hag sack, great Gravenberch, Casemiro done, ‘unprofessional’ Szob
👉 Five reasons for Manchester United fans to be cheerful features the Ten Hag sack
👉 Zirkzee 8th), Ugarte 5th): Ratcliffe-era Man Utd transfer decisions ranked from worst to best

Calvino is back…
Well Sean, I could retort, there are Daniels and Lees, and then there are Seans.

Daniels use their own eyes, backed by data and come to reasonable conclusions. I saw United lose by the same score line to the same team just this summer, and it came down to the same thing in the end: better finishing, and some mistakes. This wasn’t magically coached into them by their new coach.

The XG was 1.36 to 1.79, which is pretty close, as were all other metrics as Daniel showed. Scoring with all 3 shots on target isn’t a humiliation, it’s just fortunate on Liverpool’s part. Injuries do matter, and as the season progresses I look forward to LFC excuses when just one star is missing, let alone both full-backs and your main goalscorer. (Remember 5 home losses in a row because Van Dijk was out?)

F365 for what’s it’s worth have began the ‘Ten Hag out’ campaign before the season started and even after they had a comfortable victory Vs Fulham. Go read 16 conclusions with your schadenfraude glasses off, there’s where you’ll find bitter. You’ll also notice LFC were so great it took five conclusions to get to LFC in the game, and that was about Gravenberch not being shit.(Because he’s had three decent games. Remember Antony getting such grace after 3 goals in 3, you don’t? 😉)

But you could also try to be a Lee. A person who understands that it’s either a good win v a good team, or their shit and you’re floating about a weak victory. I like these rationale types of fan.

But you can be a Sean: very emotional & wanting to have his cake and eat it. Too often, fans & F365 want it both ways, want to right whether your wrong or right. I highlighted some of these in the mail you replied to. United are both shit, but good on their day, but only cause they spend a lot but also spends poorly, and their coach is bad, but he wins trophies, but they are once offs, but ultimately titles matter, but not for Erik, got it? Didn’t think so.

Onto Erik, he’s constantly attacked, and often derided by never could and never cans. Evidence showed with a functioning team he opened his first 25 games with a 75% win rate(beating arsenal city & lfc) before injuries set in and consistency fell off (who’d have known) – topped with a trophy and Europe. The next season he saw more injuries than any team, played only once or twice his preferred team out of almost 60 games, and still landed a trophy and Europe. All the while dealing with controversies, a takeover and all of the medias toxic interpretations. That’s takes some steel and he clearly has it (Plus, there is no rationale alternative).

I have a feeling he’s a good choice based on how much many of the opposition want him gone. It’s rare a Daniel or a Lee would come to such hyperbolic conclusions (especially 3 games in). But I find it hard to believe those who seethe at the mouth, hoping, praying and demanding United lose and replace him are being genuine, especially when you lump Southgate in as a suggestion.

I also do not like the “Slots been there a month and Ten Hags been there two years” or “Slots spent almost nothing and Erik has” arguments, as if that matters one inch. New manager bounce is a thing, and he’s had little time to actually implement much. Artetas been at Arsenal over twice as long as Erik, but has half the trophies, and the spending matters little when Chelsea are still shit despite $1 billion dropped, and you could plop a dead Turkey in the hot seat at City and they’d be just fine.

Lastly, I mentioned the LFC future not out of bitterness or deflecting, but adding my perspective to the opposition we faced and their future, as I had mentioned United’s. He will face challenges this year, so wait and see. The contract situation is very much real and very much a club failing in my mind (especially for Trent and the disrespect to Mo, VVD). Like Ange last season, De Zerbi the one before, and Martinez in 2013, things can change pretty quickly once injuries set in, tactics are figured out and the former coaches methods ware off.

That to me is a rationale perspective. You may not like it, but that’s the mailbox and not one to be taken with such sensitivity Sean, be a Daniel or Lee.
Calvino (Now, off to do some work and celebrate my birthday 🥳)

And here’s a Simon and he’s seething…
It took me about 10 minutes on Sunday to begin screaming for Casemiro to come off. Even without seeing the old boy lumber through training all week, I (a slightly inebriated middle-aged bloke who hasn’t kicked a ball in 15 years) could see that he was light years behind the pace of the game. Does Ten Hag have the courage to drop him? To paraphrase a far more likeable Dutch United manager*, did he have/show the balls to make the change before the game was lost?

Seriously, what does he do all week? For two years we’ve had “we are not on their level”, “they are further ahead in development”, “have you seen our injuries?”, “look at our lovely cups!”. How about considering the deficiencies of the players personally selected by Ten Hag purchased for half a billion quid and setting up appropriately to deal with challenges as best possible. I hate to blow your mind, but what about assessing the strengths of your opposition and, y’know, doing summat about it. Like you did against City in that game you never shut up about.

Because he’s an awful human being I hate agreeing with anything Simon Jordan says… but there is now an image problem with Ten Hag that must affect the squad and coaching staff. He deals with the press worse than his midfield and seems to bite on every question with an egotistical defensive rant (lacking the charm, humour or, more recently, slightly unhinged quality of a José egotistical defensive rant).

One of Ratcliffe, Ashworth, Berrada or even Gary Pallister need to tell Erik that there may be more confidence in the process™ if it weren’t being delivered by an insecure wild-eyed bloke grunting and smiling maniacally at his own bizarre rhetorical questions. We’ve ditched far better managers with far better records and far bigger trophy cabinets to trust this one with the latest greatest rebuild. He is ultimately one of the three thousand coaches to win the Eredivisie with Ajax – which I’m sure Paul Merson thinks he could do – and bottled a Champions League semi final. Against Spurs.

Yep, 48 hours later still seething at our annual humbling.
Simón MUFC

*reportedly but you know it was true.

Man Utd’s padded stats are meaningless
I think anyone quoting the stats of the game as a way of suggesting the game was fairly equal are missing something. Most of Man U’s best chances came after Liverpool were already 2-0 and the game was dead and buried.

Anyone who watched the game could see that it was a dominant Liverpool performance. Szoboszlai really should have added a 4th goal and replays have shown Gakpo should have had a pen after being fouled in the box.

Man U’s padded stats in this game were meaningless.
Ash, Toronto

Ten Hag is a dead man shambling
About a year ago now, I had a letter – and several follow-ups – featured in the Mailbox in which I said that Erik Ten Hag looked like a dead man walking, though I didn’t particularly think he’d be sacked.

My point then was that Ten Hag was moribund at Manchester United; my point now is that he has remained so (somehow, despite winning an FA Cup!) and seemingly always will. As things stand, I can’t even imagine him making a positive difference. He’s just…there.

His post-match comments are so often tremulous and grasping for reasons and excuses because he knows he’s had as little effect on things as the pitch-side reporter asking the questions. He may not actually be a bad manager, but he doesn’t have the stature or authority to lead at Manchester United Football Club ™.

I think he’ll be gone well before the New Year.
Chris C, Toon Army DC

MORE ON MAN UTD MESS FROM F365:
👉 16 Conclusions on Man Utd 0-3 Liverpool: Ten Hag sack, great Gravenberch, Casemiro done, ‘unprofessional’ Szob
👉 Five reasons for Manchester United fans to be cheerful features the Ten Hag sack
👉 Zirkzee 8th), Ugarte 5th): Ratcliffe-era Man Utd transfer decisions ranked from worst to best

Ferguson didn’t leave Man Utd in the sh*t
After three days of United being compared with Liverpool for how the transition of power has been handled and how Klopp left Liverpool with the best squad ever and Ferguson left United with a squad of old and decrepit no hopers I thought I’d actually look into this.

I’ve put a lot of research into a point I’m not that bothered about but do think it’s strange that everyone at United says Ferguson tarnished his legacy a little by creating a squad for one last title push when, after an hour of looking through Wikipedia, just isn’t true.

Ferguson won his final title in the 2012/13 season, he had a first team squad with the average age of 27.9 (this isn’t an old squad, Man City won it the next season with a squad with the average age of 28).

The Goalkeeper was De Gea, he was 22 when Fergie left, meaning that you didn’t have to replace the goalkeeper for 10 years….. and you didn’t.

The 2 central defenders and the right back (Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra) did need replacing but Vidic and Evra was only 31 and still played well the next season, Ferguson had even played Jones, Smalling and Evans a little to transition them into first team roles. Replacing a full back line is a task but at the time Smalling and Jones were seen as the next big thing, somehow Jones was seen as the best when the other two arguably had lot better careers.

For anyone wondering who was right back it was Rafael, he was 22, meaning that you didn’t have to replace him for 10 years…… but you did (I can’t remember him dropping off or getting injured, I thought he was quite good but I support Liverpool so what do I know).

The four midfielders with the most appearances that year were Valencia, 27, Young, 27, Cleverley, 23 and Carrick 31, 3 of those players could keep on playing for another 5 years, spoilers 3 of them did, for United, only Cleverley got shipped out, the youngest one.

The two strikers are Rooney 27 and Van Persie 29…… just let that sit for a minute, some would probably say that is better than leaving someone with, lets say Jota and Salah, some might say that but I won’t. Rooney at 27 wasn’t spent and was at the team for another 5 years, Van Persie at 29 would go on for another two seasons (he did only score just over 20 but still he was pretty).

These players weren’t broken, they weren’t super old, many were coming into their prime or being on the peak of breaking through (Hernandez, Welbeck, Jones, Buttner and Zaha, who signed that summer but loaned back, were all seen to be the next big thing at the time), Ferguson didn’t leave the incoming manager with a pile of dross, he left them with a title winning team that won the league by 11 points.

A half decent man manager should of been able to use that same team and still come higher than sixth. The team had a few years left before the wheels should fall off, this is shown by the fact that 5 years later many of that squad was still playing, De Gea, Rooney, Carrick, Valencia, Jones.

The only thing that Ferguson screwed United over with was the choice of the next manager, I know he was Scottish Alex but jesus, he looked like a deer in the headlights, if Mourinho had got that squad at that point we probably would of had another 5 years of United dominance before the Pep era sent him mental.

Sadly, now you are left with a mish mash of a group of players from 5 different manager ideals that the no one seems to be able to stamp on the squad, I used to say United were one good manager away from dominating, now they are 4 seasons of backroom changes and a proper vision to get back to challenging, you are now Liverpool pre-Klopp, don’t worry though after Slot loses the 3 of the 4 best players at the end of the season we’ll probably be joining you for the scraps of 5th or 6th while Brighton over take us.
Rich Jennings, LFC, Hull (Man City 2014 midfield is awesome, Fernandinho, Toure, Milner and Nasri, sex on legs that)

Boiled Rice
If you are going by the football law there are only two possible outcomes from the Rice/Veltman situation and non of them would result in Rice getting a second yellow card.

Outcome 1: Veltman takes the free kick when he shoots the ball at Rice and then proceeds to take down Rice. Yellow card Veltman and free kick to Arsenal.

Outcome 2: Veltman doesn’t take the free kick when he shoots the ball at Rice – That’s a clear yellow card for Veltman – Play stops because Chris Kavanagh has to give Veltman a yellow card and the game can’t be started så Rice can’t get a yellow card for stopping a free kick. Veltman would then also have to get a direct red card for kicking Rice since the ball isn’t in play.

Chris Kavanagh outcome:

Step 1: Chris Kavanagh clearly doesn’t think Veltman takes the free kick which is perfectly fair.

Step 2: Chris Kavanagh looks the other way (or uses common sense if you like) when Veltman shoots the ball at Rice. A clear yellow card offence according to the “Letter of the law” (LOFL)

Step 3: Gives a yellow card to Rice for kicking the ball away – Apparently he can’t use common sense because of LOFL even though he clearly just used common sense at step 2.

Step 4: The ball is clearly not in play and therefore there are absolutely no excuse for not giving Veltman a direct red card according LOFL.

So too summarize Chris Kavanagh clearly only sticks to LOFL when it’s against Arsenal and chooses to completely disregard LOFL when it’s against Arsenal. This in effect leads to two completely different sets of rules for the teams – One for Brighton which is as lenient as possible (even against the rules) and one for Arsenal which is to the fullest punishment possible even against the rules.
Gud

…The controversy surrounding Declan Rice’s red card during the Arsenal versus Brighton match highlights how easily narratives can be manipulated, shaping public perception. Initially, the commentary suggested Rice was sent off for delaying a restart, a narrative that quickly gained traction among analysts and pundits, despite dissenting voices. Many fans and writers felt compelled to accept this view, influenced by the authoritative tone of commentators and media coverage.

The media plays a significant role in shaping opinions. Just as past events – like the false claims about Saddam Hussein’s weapons or fabricated stories of atrocities – have shown, misrepresentations can lead to widespread belief in inaccurate narratives. In this case, referee Kavanagh’s decision was clearly misguided, yet the public has largely accepted the flawed explanation without questioning it.

To examine the situation objectively, one must consider the actions of Rice and Brighton’s Veltman. Rice did not deliberately delay play; the ball was thrown at him rather than him kicking a stationary ball. Veltman, conversely, attempted to take a free kick from the incorrect position, with a moving ball, making the restart invalid. Because of this, there was no legitimate restart to delay.

Instead of critically analyzing the sequence of events, many accept the narratives presented by so-called experts, who often overlook the complexities and focus solely on isolated interpretations of the rules. This acceptance leads to a robotic repetition of flawed narratives, where the abnormal becomes normalized. As with the controversial claim about the Newcastle ball being out, the media creates debates that keep audiences engaged, ultimately benefiting their financial interests.

In summary, anyone who asserts that Rice’s red card was warranted has fallen victim to this manipulation of narrative. It underscores the importance of critical thinking in the face of media influence, where questioning and analyzing events are crucial to understanding the truth.
Ronnie Shumba