Ten Hag sack would be ‘easy fix’ as Man Utd players should ‘hang heads in shame’

The fall-out from Man Utd v Liverpool continues apace, with the players, manager and fans all getting a pasting.

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What was embarrassing about that Man Utd performance
So Liverpool spanked us and it’s the end of the world. Get over it. It was expected. May be not this game but we were gonna get hammered at some point soon. Unfortunately it was this game.

The answer might not be Ten Hag but that was not the question this summer. Changing a decent manager when we had no more than half a fit 11 for purpose let alone squad when there’s new coaches and new leadership would have been just too much. Someone that has seen the issues first hand must remain. Looks like he doesn’t know how to fix them but I’m all in for Nistelrooy to have a close look himself (with less pressure on him) for most of the season and hopefully help Ten Hag get his shit together or just take over.

I also don’t think that first season was a fluke. What Eriksen did is being extremely overlooked. Him and Casemiro still good and Bruno buzzing and spraying passes everywhere with Rashford flying on the shoulder of defenders felt unstoppable at times. Control and chaos in a beautiful mix. We do not have that player, unless Mainoo keeps progressing but he needs help. He can’t control a game in which Bruno is playing. He needs more experience and I guess Casemiro really did do a Varane and retired or something.

Our midfield is pretty much Mainoo and co. You can’t do that to someone so young. It never works. Especially in midfield. He shouldn’t even be playing every game. So we needed two, we got one so good work so far (I hope) and we were never gonna finish the squad this summer. We shouldn’t. No one wants to do a Chelsea. I don’t even care if they win the league 10 years in a row. It’s a joke way of existing.

Rashford. Man. Talk to us. What’s going on? Or just take a break. You’ve earned it. All United fans would understand. We understood when Sancho did, and you have earned a lot more patience from us than that guy. Ten Hag is really not doing him any favours either by leaving him out to dry game after game when we have no one to help him when Shaw isn’t playing. All his deficiencies are so evident that it makes it almost impossible for someone low on confidence to pull through. He needs support on that field and Bruno tends to just drift right… and back, and everywhere but you know. That being said Rashford still managed to set up our two good chances in the second half.

The most disappointing though… Collyer. Not the way he played, he had a couple good plays but the complete lack of protection he got from his teammates. It was his debut. And he got targeted and bullied repeatedly and not one player backed him. No one gave him options. No one ran over to shove a Liverpool player the f**k out of the way or boot him into oblivion. Collyer was left to his devices and that was truly embarrassing from all of his teammates. Hang your heads in shame.
Zdravko

MORE ON MAN UTD MESS FROM F365:
👉 16 Conclusions on Man Utd 0-3 Liverpool: Ten Hag sack, great Gravenberch, Casemiro done, ‘unprofessional’ Szob
👉 Five reasons for Manchester United fans to be cheerful features the Ten Hag sack
👉 Zirkzee 8th), Ugarte 5th): Ratcliffe-era Man Utd transfer decisions ranked from worst to best

Ten Hag is Man Utd security blanket
When the INEOS board came in, they realized there was a major overhaul of the entire structure needed. One of the first steps was to appoint a new management team, and arguably, the people they have appointed on the football side, seem to have the right calibre.

When it came to Ten Hag, their likely assessment was the following:

1. He’s a young manager still learning the ropes but with potential and a high ceiling. Possibly in time can become an Arteta, so did not want to have seller’s remorse by firing immediately.

2. Over the past two years, he’s been saddled with duties of coach, manager, scouting and other administrative tasks and it was not possible for him to perform to his potential given that he was occupied with tasks off the pitch which, in a functioning club, he should not have to do.

3. His performance against City was needlessly given too much merit.

4. There’s so much change ongoing so best to wait on the managerial change and do that in some time.

This is the case I think the new United management would make for sticking with ETH. For a change, there are football people making football decisions and they seem to have the right calibre, but I think they got this decision incredibly wrong.

Let’s pretend for a moment, ETH is a great coach, and if other areas of the pitch are taken care of, he will be able to deliver on pitch. And let’s not forget, his transfer record over the past two years, and in particular bringing in players he has worked with in the past has been abysmal. The obvious solution then would have been to take responsibility for this and limit ETH’s role in this area as much as possible. Yet, in the signings we have seen so far, including Van Nisterooy’s appointment as Assistant Manager, you can see the United team leaning too much on ETH for his wisdom when they should be doing the absolute opposite.

It almost seems like there’s so much to do, and they feel they are in over their head, so ETH is their security blanket and scapegoat when things don’t improve at least in the short term.

ETH has spent two years at the club and you can see the players making the same basic mistakes that a good coach should have been able to iron out much sooner. Tuchel and Poch were both great options and United choosing to stick with ETH instead was a major own goal. It is an easy fix and they will need to do this sooner or later, but why fix later what could have been fixed yesterday? It does not reflect well on the new United management and makes one question whether they actually do have the calibre to get United out of the mess they are in.
Adeel

It’s not a Ten Hag issue
Since Jan 2021, Utd played Liverpool 12 times (including cup games) Utd’s record is P12 W3 D3 L6. The aggregate score? 33-13 in favour of Liverpool, that isn’t a manager issue, that’s a systemic issue with the club, 1 transfer window and a new set up at the board level can’t fix that.
Vernon, Dublin, Ireland

This is (still) my Perfect Moment
Well, that was a bit delightful wasn’t it? I had no idea Man Utd would be so poor, and ETH spouting about expected goals was a tad lolzy.

I was the chap who emailed me last season saying this is the perfect moment for Utd and none-Utd fans. They’re happy with ETH, the rest of us are certainly happy he is still in charge.

Reading Garey Vance’s email today shows me, this perfect moment is lasting much longer than our beloved Dame Martine McCutcheon could have ever predicted.

F*** it, let them win the League Cup again this year, if it keeps him at the helm so we can watch them fall apart continously in the league and Europe.

Yep, Garey and fellow Utd fans, you’re right, LFC were just a bit more clinical, and there’s nothing wrong with losing 3.0 at home to your most hated rivals who’s manager has only been in charge for three games.

There’s no dumpster fire here, just a unique bbq.
David (Keep the comments off – literally three basement dwellers with different accounts shouting at themselves) Molby, Shrewsbury

…Mr Vance I’m sorry, “the scoreline flattered them”? Did it though? Or were you very lucky not to concede at least 2-3 more goals? What is it with United fans being completely unable to understand the depth of their pit? I’ve sung this anthem in this very mailbox before, but I guess it needs repeating.

It’s not Casemiro, and it’s not Maguire, it’s the whole bloody squad from Bruno through Rashford to Garnacho. It’s not just tactics, it’s petulant, soft players all over the pitch, it’s a captain that’s got about as much drive and leadership skills in him as a dead jellyfish, and it’s not just your coach, it’s an entire club completely misjudging itself and it’s limitations at every turn. If you thought the cup wins were signs that you’re out of the rot, you’re either delusional or, and I do apologize for using unkind words, utterly f***ing clueless.

Punch your weight and build slowly, and maybe in a few years you’ll get somewhere. Or don’t, really. This cycle is hilarious to watch.

I won’t get carried away with three in three, the wheels look sturdy but you never know, and it’s a long season. But there’s one thing I know for sure – as long as United continue thinking they’re the prettiest girl at the ball, and it’s just one small fix and one more defender, you will suffer, as we did for many many years. Sort yourselves out, or enjoy your descent into becoming the noisy neighbour.
Tomer, LFC (Ryan will soon be your favorite player lads, get excited. Shout-out to the silent and invisible Keith, who is surely on the curb shouting his comments at traffic)

…Sometimes UTD fans lull you in and you think they might actually watch/understand the game and then Garey sends his mail. So let me retort.

Hard to argue with a scoreline like that so I will be brief.

We gifted United a cop out. Liverpool 3 goals were clinical, but the scoreline flattered Utd. Utd had the same amount of shots on target which all came when 3-0 down and Liverpool coasting, Utd also had more possession and only a slightly lower XG, to quote a Utd fan, “stats don’t lie, they f&$kIn* do, Liverpool battered us”.

I have seen LFC play a lot better and not win.
Howard (bias is a horrible thing) Jones

…Whenever United record their latest terrible result, I always genuinely look forward to reading the unique perspectives provided by the various Ten Hag-defending Mailbox regulars.

The mental gymnastics are consistently absolutely breathtaking. If there is anywhere else in the world where you can read people earnestly and desperately trying to convince themselves of things they deep down must know to be untrue, please point me in that direction because that sounds like an equally great read.

Keep it coming, please.
Oliver (Salah:United = Suarez:Norwich) Dziggel, Geneva Switzerland

MORE ON MAN UTD MESS FROM F365:
👉 16 Conclusions on Man Utd 0-3 Liverpool: Ten Hag sack, great Gravenberch, Casemiro done, ‘unprofessional’ Szob
👉 Five reasons for Manchester United fans to be cheerful features the Ten Hag sack
👉 Zirkzee 8th), Ugarte 5th): Ratcliffe-era Man Utd transfer decisions ranked from worst to best

Loving Private Ryan
A lot of the mailbox appears to be centred on Man U failings, whereas I wanted to highlight a couple of real positives for Liverpool.

Last week I wrote a mail on LFC’s transfer activity and in the bottom brackets raised the point about Sunday being the first real test for Ryan Gravenberch in the number 6 position.

Well it appears he passed that particular test on Sunday – I thought he was close to being Liverpool’s best player, able to play on the half shoulder and change the lines of possession really well (thanks to great passing into midfield by Virgil too).

That part didn’t really surprise me (when the ball is at his feet). The part that really impressed me was when he didn’t have the ball. From what I could work out, his positional awareness was on point – he anticipated where the ball was going for the first goal, moving towards the space before the ball had left Casemiro’s boot.

He also was quite tenacious in the tackle I thought, which is the part of his game that he has to continue to improve if he wants to lock down the 6 position in the team.

I am sure he will have games where he struggles this season, but it feels as though he will be less exposed in the position than he would have been under a Klopp system (more numbers around to assist / greater emphasis on dropping to cover on the counter).

In terms of overall team play, I spotted something else which I’m very keen to see first hand to see whether I am mistaken. We all know that Liverpool are a little less rushed under Slot in terms of attacking the opposition, but within that I saw a lot more subtle little movements from our players when in possession – little 5 yard jogs/darts into space by the majority of players that helped to stress defensive shapes. Perhaps something to keep an eye on..

The real quality on display came from Salah’s feet – let’s enjoy those twinkle toes while he is still wearing a shirt with a horrendous collar this season (home & away ! … takes proper ineptitude to mess up both !) – but away from him I felt we were the better team.

ETH blaming individual errors is not a great look (akin to ‘the players are the problem .. not the system’), but let’s see when he has Ugarte in role and how they cope against better teams then. If he can’t get a tune out of that setup he wont make it to 2025 in post (which as a Liverpool fan would disappoint me slightly).

International break week and I’m bored already …. why do they take away our favourite (prem) toy so soon after we’ve been given it ?
Sparky, LFC

Three reasons why Arsenal are unfairly treated
This is an attempt to thread the needle between ‘Arsenal fans are all delusional/paranoid’ and ‘The PGMOL are out to get us’ tin foil conspiracism, to make an argument Arsenal are unconsciously refereed differently from other teams.

I believe Arsenal do get a greater share of ridiculous/unfair bookings and opponents are simultaneously less likely to get booked for rough play. This is unconscious bias from referees rather than conscious bias.

This stems from 3 things:

1) Holdover from Wenger era: Most refs now ultimately grew up (professionally at least) during the Wenger era when two key things were established: A) Arsenal play broadly within the rules/good football and B) it’s accepted by the league generally that other clubs can treat them rough to throw them off this game.

Now we see Saka being kicked to utter crap every game basically normalised and off-ball levellers (like Guimaraes last season) seen as par for the course.

At the same time Partey went through a ridiculous run of getting booked for his first foul in every game a couple of seasons ago.

2) Arsenal have *now* transitioned to the dark arts: People colloquially now put over-emphasis on Arteta’s attempts to make team tougher and play ‘smarter’. Case in point is Ben White’s GK shenanigans last season which were standard over last 10 years (Brentford’s second goal against us in their debut season opener is evidence and I believe was so significant to Arteta’s overal drive to toughen Arsenal and play these margins) getting addressed immediately.

Hence Rice kicking the ball away definitely being sneaky behaviour worth a booking and not Veltmen absolutely smashing him when a) who was he kicking the ball too like that, every Brighton player was in their half and b) he had plenty of time to pull out of that kick, come on now.

3) Arsenal are very prominent: Basically, refereeing decisions carry much more visibility when our fans all kick off, so if a nonsense thing happens to us, even if the PGMOL say ‘oh it’s fine’ they behind closed doors never do the thing again.

See Martinelli red card for two consecutive yellows (didn’t see Joelinton get that on Sunday for two offences in 20 seconds) or Tomiyasu getting the most unbelievably soft second yellow for a shirt pull last season.

Eight players kicked the ball away, or otherwise consciously acted to stop a restart yesterday in PL fixtures, three of them already on yellows. Were any of them booked? Of course not. And you won’t see another all season, I bet.

Since 2019, Arsenal have had 17 red cards in their games vs 9 for their opponents. I bet no club has such a disparity in that direction whilst being fouled more than they foul.

I know every team has conspiracies about referees, but the fact we all have them doesn’t make them all invalid, it can be possible there are trends and biases in how teams are refereed (they will go into games with things to look out for etc etc).

I would love someone with all those fun data subscriptions to do a balanced meta-analysis of how Premier League teams are refereed. Happy to be proven wrong.
Tom (Hurzeler gone down massively in my estimation too with his comments, could have gone ‘Yeh it’s tough, but the laws are the laws’ or similar, but ‘clear red card’ is complete shite and I’d feel the same if Brighton were on receiving end) Walthamstow

But why is Rice getting involved?
The thing with the whole Rice debacle that no one seems to have really mentioned is why is he getting involved? It’s so easy to blame the ref, and maybe he could have dealt with it better, but why does no one ever point first to the whining players trying to cheat or bend the rules at every given opportunity? If you act like a bit of a dick, maybe you’ll be treated as such. Whether you think it’s a 2nd yellow or not; Rice has been incredibly stupid there.

Should be an exciting October/November as a Villa fan with lots of interesting and winnable games on the horizon, and a home game vs Bayern Munich. Bring on Everton’s old boys and Bern’s Young Boys!

Ta,
Gary AVFC, Oxford